Hold On A Minute - Episode 8 - For Every Age of Her Life [Transcript]

HOST
Hello! You are listening to “Hold on a Minute!”, 
a podcast by UNFPA Asia and the Pacific.  

00:00:11
HOST
This podcast series presents inspiring and powerful stories 
on the sexual and reproductive health and rights 

00:00:16
HOST
of women across the Asia-Pacific region.   

00:00:20
HOST
I am Poupée, Chaowarat Yongjiranon, your host.  

00:00:24
HOST
On this episode of Hold on a Minute by UNFPA Asia-Pacific 
entitled, Ageing with Dignity. 

00:00:29
HOST
We take a look at how crucial investment at every stage 
of a woman’s life is to her society and the region.  

00:00:39
HOST
The Asia-Pacific region is the fastest ageing region in the world.   

00:00:43
HOST
By 2050, one in four people will be well above the age of 60 years old. 

00:00:49
HOST
Countries within the region are still not fully equipped 
to face the challenge of increased health and social care spending 

00:00:56
HOST
as the working-age population dwindles in size. 

00:01:01
HOST
The decline of the fertility rate and people living longer  
have contributed to larger percentages of older persons.   

00:01:08
HOST
With Asia-Pacific’s population of 4.7 billion people 
representing almost 60% of the world’s population, 

00:01:16
HOST
The way the region handles the ageing society 
will not only affect the region, but the entire world. 

00:01:24
HOST
When women have the opportunity to lead healthy, 
meaningful and independent older years, 

00:01:31
HOST
They can actively contribute to the socioeconomic development 
of the countries they live in.  

00:01:37
HOST
In 2021, the UNFPA Asia-Pacific Regional Office, 
with partners, launched a regional advocacy campaign titled 

00:01:46
HOST
‘For Every Age: Taking a life-cycle approach 
towards population ageing’.  

00:01:51
HOST
With gender equality at its core, 
the life-cycle approach supports investing 

00:01:56
HOST
in every stage of a woman’s life, from her childhood, 
adolescence, reproductive age, into older years, 

00:02:04
HOST
So that she can age with good health, dignity, skills, 
and the decision-making power 

00:02:10
HOST
To be able to contribute to society at her fullest potential. 
______________________________
THIRD VOICE
‘Hold on a Minute, a podcast series by UNFPA Asia - Pacific.’
_______________________________

Host Introducing speaker
00:02:19
HOST
To learn more about the life-cycle approach 
and how important it is to invest in every stage of a woman’s life 

00:02:27
HOST
Our podcast today welcomes two individuals driving this initiative. 

00:02:31
HOST
Dr. Rintaro Mori is a technical advisor working on 
the population ageing and low fertility in the Asia-Pacific region.  

00:02:39
HOST
As a medical doctor, he has in-depth experience 
in the area of health and social care for women and children 

00:02:46
HOST
Both in high-income and middle-income countries. 

00:02:50
HOST
Professor Dr Dato Tengku Aizan Hamid is the founding director 
of the Malaysian Research Institute on Ageing (MyAgeing). 

00:02:59
HOST
She has been instrumental in the development of 
gerontological research, policy, and education in Malaysia 

00:03:06
HOST
and sits in several national advisory 
and consultative committees on ageing in Malaysia.   

HOST - INTERVIEW – EXPERT TALK

00:03:13
HOST
Dr. Rintaro and Dr. Aizan. It's such a pleasure 
to talk with you on such an important topic.  

00:03:19
HOST
And that is, you know, the ageing society, 

00:03:23
HOST
Asia and the Pacific region is quite vast 
and it's very dynamic. 

00:03:27
HOST
Dr. Rintaro, can you explain to us a bit about the key features 
of population dynamics in the region? 

00:03:34
DR.RINTARO
Yeah, thank you very much, Khun Poupee. 

00:03:37
DR.RINTARO
Yes, if I am asked to describe the population trend 
in Asia Pacific, in one word, it's a diversity. 

00:03:46
DR.RINTARO
You know, there are many countries in Asia Pacific where, you know 
for example, a country like Afghanistan, Pakistan. 

00:03:53
DR.RINTARO
There are still very young populations 
 and they are still growing, very sort of, rapidly. 

00:04:01
DR.RINTARO
Whereas, the other countries like Malaysia, 
Thailand, Japan and China, 

00:04:07
DR.RINTARO
You know, fertility is declining. 
And so the population is ageing. 

00:04:10
DR.RINTARO
So we have a very diverse, you know, population 
in our region at the same time. 

00:04:16
DR.RINTARO
As overall the majority of the countries in Asia and the Pacific 
are actually sort of showing the population decline 

00:04:25
DR.RINTARO
Or actually the slowness of the population growth actually. 
That's sort of the overall trend. 

00:04:31
HOST
Population ageing, on one hand it’s a representation of progress 

00:04:35
HOST
Because people are having better autonomy of their bodies, 
empowered to have their own choices 

00:04:40
HOST
And have access to family planning services 
and also better health overall. 

00:04:45
HOST
But on the other hand, there are challenges 
for an ageing society. 

00:04:49
HOST
Dr. Aizan, can you tell us what are the main challenges 
and what are the main concerns right now 

00:04:55
HOST
for policymakers about ageing societies? 

00:05:00
DR. AIZAN
If you look at the challenges of population ageing, 
it's multifaceted in terms of the challenges. 

00:05:08
DR. AIZAN
And also, it is quite difficult and it’s quite complex 
for the government to address the population ageing issues. 

00:05:19
DR. AIZAN
And it requires coordinated effort 
from various government departments and sectors. 

00:05:25
DR. AIZAN
And policymakers must balance the immediate needs 
of the older persons with long term sustainability 
and security consideration. 

00:05:33
DR. AIZAN
So therefore, the policymakers need to adapt 
to the evolving demographics of population ageing. 

00:05:39
DR. AIZAN
But let me say in two perspectives, because 
we need to look at the problems of old age 
at the individual level 

00:05:47
DR. AIZAN
Which is poor health, loneliness, 
social isolation, impoverishment and so on. 

00:05:53
DR. AIZAN
And we also need to look at the problems of an ageing society. 

00:05:57
DR. AIZAN
So we have two different perspectives. 

00:05:59
DR. AIZAN
When you talk about this at the individual level 
in terms of policymakers, 

00:06:05
DR. AIZAN
You have to look at how to address 
the risk of poverty in old age 

00:06:10
DR. AIZAN
and also to look at how we want to reduce the inequality 
 in the health of these people. 

00:06:18
DR. AIZAN
And because of this issue, in terms of old age problems, 
it is dependent on the trajectory of life 

00:06:26
DR. AIZAN
and the social capital of the families 
and where they live in the areas of the country. 

00:06:34
DR. AIZAN
So in terms of accessibility 
to health services and things like that, 

00:06:40
DR. AIZAN
And also to look at the social capital 
that is surrounding the older person themself. 

00:06:47
DR. AIZAN
So we need to look at the preventive aspect 
of promotion of health  

00:06:52
DR. AIZAN
so that the older person that is growing 
from the life course perspective 
have access to prevent ailments in later life. 

00:07:02
DR. AIZAN
So that is the perspective from the individual old age problem. 

00:07:06
DR. AIZAN
In terms of the societal problem, as Dr. Rintaro mentioned, 
the population dynamics is changing 

00:07:12
DR. AIZAN
And also the issues of economic dynamism, 
shrinking of working population, 

00:07:19
DR. AIZAN
Increasing old age dependency 
and increasing generational burden, 

00:07:26
DR. AIZAN
The rising costs of welfare and age care, 
increasing healthcare cost and new demands 

00:07:31
DR. AIZAN
which we might not even anticipate in the future, 
in terms of that. 

00:07:37
DR. AIZAN
With the flow of the population dynamics. 

00:07:42
DR. AIZAN
Therefore, we need to look at how to encourage 
labour force participation of women 

00:07:48
DR. AIZAN
and older men or older persons, 
as well as encouraging longer employment, 

00:07:53
DR. AIZAN
Especially among skilled workers and professionals, 

00:07:56
DR. AIZAN
and also to reduce unemployment among younger people. 

00:08:00
DR. AIZAN
Because all these issues with unemployment at a young age 

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DR. AIZAN
would affect them when they grow old. 

00:08:07
DR. AIZAN
So those are some of the issues or the policy 
that needs to be addressed in terms of poverty 

00:08:15
DR. AIZAN
And in terms of the financing of old age. 

00:08:18
DR. AIZAN
We need to look at building the funding component of pensions 

00:08:23
DR. AIZAN
Through encouraging individuals to save for their old age, 

00:08:26
DR. AIZAN
Because we know  the pension commitment is very high 
and may be not sustainable. 

00:08:34
DR. AIZAN
And we also need to look at including incentives for funding 
for old age pensions and services 

00:08:41
DR. AIZAN
So that the system can be sustainable.

00:08:44
DR. AIZAN
In other aspects of the care of the older person 

00:08:47
DR. AIZAN
We need to look at the containment of welfare 
and old age care cost, 

00:08:52
DR. AIZAN
Through a spending of partnership between families, 
volunteers, private sector providers, 

00:08:58
DR. AIZAN
philanthropic organisation and government bodies 

00:09:01
DR. AIZAN
In the provision and through continuous 
rationalisation of old aged care 

00:09:08
DR. AIZAN
Because we cannot depend on one system 
and in our part of the world, 

00:09:16
DR. AIZAN
The formal institution is very costly 
and we have not developed actually a funding mechanism 

00:09:20
DR. AIZAN
To look at the old aged care 
and the increasing costs of institutionalisation. 

00:09:27
DR. AIZAN
Addressing ageing needs long term perspective, 
and presently many initiatives are short term. 

00:09:33
DR. AIZAN
So that means that we need to really look at the political view 
of looking at how we should handle this issue. 

00:09:42
DR. AIZAN
And also looking at the collaboration part of the individual, 
the community, the civil society, 

00:09:50
DR. AIZAN
the private sectors and the government together 

00:09:54
DR. AIZAN
trying to solve the major issue of age problem 
in the Asia-Pacific region. 

00:10:02
HOST
It’s such an eye opener, 
I think, for people perhaps, maybe,  like me, 

00:10:07
HOST
who have learned that, you know, 
Ageing is an issue in our society. 

00:10:13
HOST
If you talk about the region itself. 

00:10:16
HOST
And in terms of the various solutions that are possible 

00:10:19
HOST
And the challenges that you've just mentioned 
that are faced for each country, 

00:10:24
HOST
But to get to know more about the situation 
and for our listeners to really understand 

00:10:29
HOST
What an impact it is in terms of this topic on our lives 

00:10:34
HOST
We have a special story about a character or person 

00:10:40
HOST
That is named ‘Oum’. So let's listen to the story. 

FEATURE STORY - Oum

00:10:45
My name is Oum. I am 70 years old. 
00:10:50
I am a mother of two, and grandmother of one. 
00:10:56
My husband passed away two years ago 
00:11:00
And it has been tough 
since losing my life-partner of 40 years. 
00:11:06
But I get fulfilment and a sense of purpose 
00:11:11
From volunteering in the community centre in my town. 
00:11:18
There, I teach migrants 
how to read and write in the local language. 
00:11:25
I use my experience as a school teacher 
00:11:30
Which I had practised for 35 years 
00:11:34
Before retiring at the age of 60. 
00:11:38
I come from a humble background.   
My mother could not go to school.   
00:11:45
That limited her opportunities significantly,  
but she was determined  
00:11:53
that her daughters receive a good education.  
00:11:57
She and my father worked hard in the field,   
and earned enough to support my and my siblings’ education.  
00:12:08
I studied hard,  
and became a science teacher at the age of 25. 

00:12:16
That’s also around the time  
I met my future husband.   

00:12:23
When we first got married,   
we were not ready to have children right away. 

00:12:30
So I went to see the midwife  
in the nearby health clinic  

00:12:36
To receive information and services for family planning.  

00:12:43
We had our first daughter  
5 years into our marriage  

00:12:48
When both my husband and I felt ready  
to start a family. 

00:12:55
My in-laws expected me to resign from my job  
to dedicate myself to raising our child.  

00:13:07
But thankfully, my husband supported my wish 
to continue working,  

00:13:13
And together we raised our two beautiful daughters.   

00:13:19
Looking back, I am grateful for the support I received  
and the choices I made.  

00:13:28
I am happy to see both my daughters independent 
with established careers. 
00:13:35
I am thankful for the pension I receive 
from having worked as a teacher  

00:13:44
And the financial independence that brings. 

00:13:48
I thoroughly enjoy volunteering,  
sharing my knowledge and skills.

00:13:55
I believe we all have something to contribute 
at every stage of our lives,  including in our older years. 

00:14:08
I hope to stay active and healthy, 
to keep doing what I love  

00:14:08
and I enjoy time with my family and my friends. 
—-----------------------------------------------------------
00:14:18
HOST
Okay, So Dr. Rintaro, 
We've just heard a very inspiring story. 

00:14:24
Hopefully when I am 70 years old, 
I can be as active as this person. 

00:14:31
But what would you say about the factors 
in Oum’s environment which enabled her 

00:14:40
to age with such dignity and hope? 

00:14:45
DR.RINTARO
Yeah. Thank you very much. 
I think they showed everyone the bright side of the population ageing. 

00:14:51
DR.RINTARO
You know, it is really fascinating 
to sort of listen to her story, 

00:14:58
DR.RINTARO
The story of the lady with the bright side. 

00:14:58
DR.RINTARO
And I think that speaks to what Dr. Aizan mentioned 
as well as I think it does speak to, actually, 

00:15:06
DR.RINTARO
What I actually mentioned at the beginning. 

00:15:09
DR.RINTARO
Why the Asia Pacific is enjoying the population ageing 
and I think we actually observe the slowness of the population growth 

00:15:18
DR.RINTARO
And that actually came from a lot of actual development, 
a lot of good things being implemented. 

00:15:25
DR.RINTARO
For example, you know, listen to her story. 

00:15:28
DR.RINTARO
You know, her hard-working parents 
actually invested a lot of her education, right. 

00:15:33
DR.RINTARO
In education and herself. 

00:15:36
DR.RINTARO
And also I think she had a lot of, 
actually sort of the reproductive choices came in. 

00:15:42
DR.RINTARO
So she had a choice to determine 
when and how to have a child. 

00:15:47
DR.RINTARO
And I think she was actually with a very good husband, 
understanding of various issues 

00:15:52
DR.RINTARO
Which were not the case in the past. 

00:15:56
DR.RINTARO
So this actually a good environment  
where she had an early stage of their life 

00:16:01
DR.RINTARO
That's all led to the brightness 
of the actual later stage of her life. 

00:16:07
DR.RINTARO
This is actually very important. 
Key message actually I got from her story. 

00:16:13
HOST
You know, when we talk about solutions, 
there is the concept of life cycle approach. 

00:16:20
HOST
Dr. Aizan, can you explain this concept a little bit 
in terms of how it is put in practice. 

00:16:26
HOST
And what does this mean in terms of national policies 
and what can governments do with it? 

00:16:33
DR.AIZAN
If you look at ageing, 
we don't suddenly become aged, right? 

00:16:37
DR.AIZAN
So we go through the life course processes 
and of course, because of that, 

00:16:42
DR.AIZAN
there are important issues that need to be addressed 
in the different stages of development. 

00:16:51
DR.AIZAN
So if you look at the life cycle approach 
in terms of national policy, 

00:16:55
DR.AIZAN
It is a framework that recognizes the different stages 
of an individual's life and tailors government policies 

00:17:02
DR.AIZAN
And programmes to address specific needs 
and challenges people face at each stage, 

00:17:08
DR.AIZAN
Each one goes to various phases from birth to old age. 

00:17:11
DR.AIZAN
And each one of us goes through these trajectories differently 
depending on our family capital and resources, 

00:17:18
DR.AIZAN
location of residence and so forth.

00:17:21
DR. AIZAN
So the lifecycle approach recognizes 
that individuals need to evolve over time 

00:17:25
DR. AIZAN
And policies should adapt accordingly 
to support their wellbeing and maximize their potential. 

00:17:30
DR. AIZAN
It requires a holistic and integrated approach 
to policy making that considers the entire life course of individuals 

00:17:38
DR. AIZAN
And aims to create a more equitable 
and inclusive society. 

00:17:42
DR. AIZAN
So if we look at the lifecycle stages, 
I would like to share some of the policy perspectives 

00:17:48
DR. AIZAN
that we may consider. 

00:17:50
DR. AIZAN
For example, the first one will be the prenatal 
and the early childhood stage of life. 

00:17:55
DR. AIZAN
The focus at this stage probably would be 
on policies of maternal and child health 

00:18:00
DR. AIZAN
And the investment in prenatal maternal health care 
to ensure healthy pregnancies and safe childbirth. 

00:18:09
DR. AIZAN
And also to have access to prenatal care, 
vaccination programmes and neonatal care. 

00:18:15
DR. AIZAN
So the importance is the investment 
in the first five years of life 
at the prenatal and early childhood stage, 

00:18:22
DR. AIZAN
And also early childhood education and care 
is also critical at this stage. 

00:18:29
DR.AIZAN
And in the second stage, 
let's look at education and youth, 

00:18:33
DR.AIZAN
Where there needs to be an access to education 
to focus on providing equitable access to education 

00:18:40
DR.AIZAN
At all levels from early childhood 
through higher education. 

00:18:43
DR.AIZAN
And the third stage which I lumped together 
 as family and parenting, 

00:18:48
DR.AIZAN
Where we need to also consider parental leave 
to support families during the early years of the child's life 

00:18:54
DR.AIZAN
And also to have family support services, 
which is acceptable and affordable, 

00:19:00
DR.AIZAN
To include health care, counselling, childcare 
and help families to balance work and family life. 

00:19:07
DR.AIZAN
In the fourth stage as we enter into life, 
we go through employment and the adulthood part of it 

00:19:14
DR.AIZAN
Where we need to have labour market policies. 

00:19:17
DR.AIZAN
We should implement that to support job creation, 
fair labour practices and employment opportunities for all ages. 

00:19:26
DR.AIZAN
And we also need to look at creating a safety net 
for programmes and policies 

00:19:31
DR.AIZAN
to protect individuals and families 
during periods of unemployment 
or even economic hardship. 

00:19:38
DR. AIZAN
And this aspect is critical because right now 
we have a lot of gig economy and things like that 

00:19:45
DR. AIZAN
Which are not really being considered 
in the present social protection programme. 

00:19:52
DR. AIZAN
So we need to look at how we can seize the gig economy, 
which is happening a lot in our region. 

00:19:59
DR. AIZAN
So to have some social protection programmes 
for them in later life, and also for carers. 

00:20:06
DR.AIZAN
Because many of us depend on family carers 
or informal carers who care for older persons 

00:20:13
DR.AIZAN
And many of these carers are what you call, 
maybe they sacrifice their work life 

00:20:18
DR.AIZAN
to care for the other person 
because they have no alternative. 

00:20:22
DR.AIZAN
So what happens to these carers  
that resign from work, let’s say. 

00:20:28
DR.AIZAN
And then when they become old, 
What are the resources? 

00:20:30
DR.AIZAN
What social protection do they get 
if they become older and things like that? Okay. 

00:20:36
DR.AIZAN
So the fifth part will be the middle age of the people, 

00:20:41
DR.AIZAN
We need to look at the work life balance 
to promote policies that enable work life balance to happen, 

00:20:47
DR.AIZAN
Flexible work arrangements 
and support caregiving opportunities. 

00:20:50
DR.AIZAN
And in many families, 
a lot of us are facing the sandwich generation. 

00:20:56
DR.AIZAN
So we need to look at the family friendly policies 
that will help us to cater for both the needs of our children 

00:20:56
DR.AIZAN
And also taking care of the older person 
and the issue of training 

00:21:11
DR.AIZAN
And retraining of workers at these areas 
in this space so that we can have opportunities 

00:21:16
DR.AIZAN
For ongoing education and skills development 
to help individual adapt to changing job market 

00:21:21
DR.AIZAN
And lifelong learning opportunities must be available 
so that they can transition into another job 
and a career after they retire. 

00:21:32
DR.AIZAN
And lastly, in terms of retirement and older adults, 
the pension system, as I mentioned earlier, 

00:21:38
DR.AIZAN
We don't really have a very solid pension system 
except for a few countries in the Asia-Pacific region 

00:21:45
DR.AIZAN
That we need to ensure the sustainability 
and adequacy of the pension system 

00:21:51
DR.AIZAN
To support retirees and also to look at the needs 
of the health care of older people in this phase of life. 

00:22:01
DR.AIZAN
You need to invest in healthcare 
to address the specific needs of older people, 

00:22:06
DR.AIZAN
Preventive care, chronic disease management, 
and also hospice and palliative care. 

00:22:11
DR.AIZAN
We have to make sure that is available 
and provide that compassionate assistance 
in daily life activities. 

00:22:20
DR.AIZAN
And other aspects that we seldom touch,  
is about housing. 

00:22:24
DR.AIZAN
We need to create friendly housing policies 
to allow older adults through this 

00:22:31
DR.AIZAN
Or other housing options so that older adults 
have a choice of residence in later life. 

00:22:35
HOST
It's really in terms of the core of it is security, 
isn't it? 

00:22:41
HOST
You know, the sense of security for people, 
as you know, in all stages of life to feel secure 

00:22:46
HOST
that they have the support system 
that they need to start a family 

00:22:52
HOST
Or to grow their family and then to age gracefully. 

00:22:58
HOST
And a lot of countries are struggling a bit. 
I mean, in terms of finding the right kind of pace 

00:23:04
HOST
The right kind of set of policies that fit them. 
And a good example, as you just mentioned, is Japan 

00:23:08
HOST
In terms of how they have evolved their policies 
to try and parallel it with the ongoing situation 

00:23:16
HOST
With trends that are quite dynamic. 
It's changing all the time. 

00:23:20
HOST
But at the end of the day, 
it serves the country to do the work 

00:23:26
HOST
To try and support it. Because, you know, 
if you talk about the concept of demographic dividend, 

00:23:32
HOST
You know, you know which countries go through 
before transitioning to ageing societies 

00:23:38
HOST
It's quite significant. Dr. Rintaro, can you explain what, 
you know, this concept of demographic dividend means 

00:23:45
HOST
And what countries can do to make the most of them?

00:23:49
HOST
And how is this concept relevant to countries 
as they prepare to have, you know, 
an older generation. 

00:23:57
DR. RINTARO
Yeah. Thank you very much for asking. 

00:23:59
I think if we focus on lifecycle approach 
from the individual perspective 

00:24:03
DR. RINTARO
I mean the we listen to the the beautiful story of the lady 
and I think we looked at individuals 

00:24:11
DR. RINTARO
How the you know the early stages are very important 
and as professor Aizan mentioned 

00:24:17
DR. RINTARO
How the government should and also 
are supporting each stage  of her life as a person 

00:24:20
DR. RINTARO
When the person [can] have 
a sort of a happy and healthy age. 
 
00:24:31
DR. RINTARO
But I think the discussion or conversations 
around demographic dividends. 

00:24:35
DR. RINTARO
I think that's more sort of looking at it at a society level, 
population level, group of people. 

00:24:43
DR. RINTARO
So demographic dividend means that, 

00:24:44
DR. RINTARO
You know, when society's ageing 
and many governments are worried about 

00:24:44
DR. RINTARO
You know, the proportion of the working age 
among all the population. 

00:24:55
DR. RINTARO
I mean, that means I think they are, 
you know, vice versa. 

00:24:58
DR. RINTARO
How are the working age people 
actually supporting people who need care  
00:25:05
DR. RINTARO
Including older persons, children, 
people with a disability, 

00:25:08
DR. RINTARO
How can the whole society support them.  

00:25:12
DR. RINTARO
You know, we listen to a lot of policy 
examples from professor Aizan, 

00:25:17
DR. RINTARO
And then immediately what governments worry about is, 
do we have money to support it, is that enough. 

00:25:23
DR. RINTARO
And particularly looking at Japan, 
the most ageing country in the world 
00:25:30
DR. RINTARO
This means that we actually have 
a shrinking working age population, 

00:25:33
DR. RINTARO
And whether this is going to be sustainable. 

00:25:35
DR. RINTARO
The conversations around sort of the life cycle approach 
from the population perspective 

00:25:42
DR. RINTARO
Actually talked about demographic dividend, 
how we can maximize this actually different proportion. 

00:25:51
DR. RINTARO
There are lots of tips around that, 
you know as professor Aizan mentioned, 
00:25:55
DR. RINTARO
When we think about older persons 
let's say 60 years old person, 

00:26:01
DR. RINTARO
20 years ago and 60 years old, 
these days they're completely different, 

00:26:06
DR. RINTARO
They're much healthier, they're willing to work 
and can actually contribute to society more. 

00:26:13
DR. RINTARO
So we actually need to change our mindset 
that the older persons  need to care. 

00:26:18
DR. RINTARO
They can contribute to the society economically, 
societally or, you know, they have a role as well. 

00:26:25
DR. RINTARO
And also, many countries in our region have gender issues, 
 including my country, Japan. 

00:26:32
DR. RINTARO
You know, there are many more women willing to work 
but cannot because of gender issues in the society. 

00:26:40
DR. RINTARO
So how we can maximize the demographic dividend 
it's actually, you know, 

00:26:44
DR. RINTARO
How we can actually promote the older persons 
who want to work, to be working 
or contributing to society. 

00:26:51
DR. RINTARO
What we can do to actually sort of promote women 
who want to work, can work. 

00:26:57
DR. RINTARO
So we call this, the gender dividend 
and also the silver dividend. 

00:27:01
DR. RINTARO
Then, you know, the whole society can sustain 
because we can have more working people. 

00:27:08
DR. RINTARO
And so you know, we are talking about 
sort of the ageing as a problem, but it's not 

00:27:13
DR. RINTARO
If you can actually maximize 
the demographic dividend conversations 

00:27:20
DR. RINTARO
And we have a right place 
and right policy in place to support them. 

00:27:23
DR. RINTARO
That is, the demographic dividends 
and we don't need to worry about [ageing societies]. 

00:27:27
DR. RINTARO
So to enable us not to be so worried about the future 
in terms of economic sustainability of the society. 

00:27:34
DR. RINTARO
We really need to think about it. 
We need to change our mindset. 

00:27:37
DR. RINTARO
We need to have a right policy in place 
to maximize the demographic dividend. 

00:27:43
HOST
Well said. Well said. And I think that, 
you know, ultimately, at the end of the day, 

00:27:48
HOST
As you just mentioned there, 

00:27:49
HOST
That it's just not and we've been talking about it 
throughout this conversation, 

00:27:54
HOST
That there's no one, you know, 
key solution for each country 
and it's quite insightful. 
00:28:00
HOST
Dr. Rintaro, about your example of your home country. 

00:28:04
HOST
But as to what Dr. Rintaro said, you know, 

00:28:07
HOST
It's really multifaceted in terms of the mindset of our society 
the mindset of our community. 

00:28:14
HOST
And we have to think about everyone as a stakeholder. 

00:28:17
HOST
So. Dr. Aizan,we take it when we look at that in that aspect, 
in terms of the private sector, for example, 

00:28:24
HOST
What can be done more from everyone 

00:28:28
HOST
To ensure that, you know, 
as a community, as a country, 

00:28:32
HOST
We have a healthier and meaningful life 
for everyone as they age. 

00:28:37
DR. AIZAN
I want to look at this from the longevity agenda 
because I think that would be a more positive way 
of looking at ageing. 

00:28:46
DR. AIZAN
Because when you talk about ageing, 

it's always negative. 

00:28:49
DR. AIZAN
But if you look at longer lives, 

00:28:52
DR. AIZAN
Then that means you have things to do 
to prepare for your longer life. 

00:28:56
DR. AIZAN
How do you fill up those longer lives that you have? 

00:28:59
DR. AIZAN
So I think from the individual level perspective, 
longer life means you have survived the challenges 

00:29:06
DR. AIZAN
And you have actually reached, 
you’re blessed actually to be, to live a longer life. 

00:29:10
DR. AIZAN
And therefore we need to learn on 
how we should take advantage of our longevity. 

00:29:16
DR. AIZAN
We are living longer and healthier, 
as Dr. Rintaro mentioned. 

00:29:20
DR. AIZAN
You need to imagine 
what kind of life that we can choose. 

00:29:26
DR.AIZAN
But also in our perspective of this country, 
we have, as we said, gender issues, 

00:29:32
DR.AIZAN
We also have cultural issues because 
we have social norms related to the concept of age. 

00:29:41
DR.AIZAN
At a certain age, you should behave like this, 
at a certain age, you should behave like that. 

00:29:45
DR.AIZAN
So, but all these norms probably in the longevity agenda 
may not be relevant anymore 

00:29:51
DR.AIZAN
Because you have to recreate 
what you want for what life you want to have 

00:29:56
DR.AIZAN
In terms of your own life patterns. 

00:30:00
DR. AIZAN
So in that sense, 
then you need to look at the norms 

00:30:03
DR. AIZAN
That we will develop in the future, 
but also the norms that we design 

00:30:11
DR. AIZAN
Well also means that there must be opportunities 
for us to have the new age 

00:30:17
DR. AIZAN
Or the new look at old age 
because we have a new perspective, 
a more positive perspective. 

00:30:23
DR. AIZAN
Because if individually 
you are negative about your old age, 
then nothing matters. 

00:30:28
DR. AIZAN
But in longevity, where you have longer life 
and healthier life, you need to create meaning in your life. 

00:30:38
DR. AIZAN
So you need to look at what opportunities 
are available and things like that in the community 

00:30:40
DR. AIZAN
And surrounding you and 
what defines you as an older person. 

00:30:44
DR. AIZAN
So that becomes a very individualistic way 
of looking at how to fulfil a meaningful life in old age. 

00:30:52
DR.AIZAN
And if you look at the societal level 
in terms of looking at the longevity dividend 

00:30:58
DR.AIZAN
You really need to look at 
how we support older workers 

00:31:02
DR.AIZAN
In terms of reemployment opportunities 
and things like that. 

00:31:06
DR.AIZAN
For example, like in Japan, as we always look towards 
Japan in terms of ageing, 

00:31:12
DR.AIZAN
In terms of reemployment policies 
and also the definition and opportunities available there. 

00:31:19
DR.AIZAN
In Singapore, I think there are 
reemployment opportunities and policies. 

00:31:23
DR.AIZAN
But in other countries in our region, 
I don't think we have that 
reemployment policy for older persons 

00:31:29
DR.AIZAN
Because that is the misconception 
that the older person would take over 

00:31:34
DR.AIZAN
the positions of the younger workers 
and the literature doesn't show that to happen. 

00:31:40
DR.AIZAN
So this myth about the older person 
taking over the opportunities or work of the younger person 

00:31:46
DR.AIZAN
Is not, may not be true. But also another aspect of it 
is to look at the ageism surrounding ageing. 

00:31:56
DR.AIZAN
For example, the corporate bodies 
will not take an older person and things like that. 

00:32:03
DR.AIZAN
And because it's costly and all those things. 

00:32:05
DR.AIZAN
So we need to look at the whole spectrum 
of society looking at ageing itself 
00:32:10
DR.AIZAN
Because ageing doesn't mean anything 
because it’s just years. 

00:32:14
DR.AIZAN
But if the institutions are looking at it 
from a negative perspective 

00:32:20
DR.AIZAN
Then a lot of things cannot happen. 
So we need to change to look at ageing 

00:32:25
DR.AIZAN
as a positive psychology, 
as a positive resource in the future 

00:32:29
DR.AIZAN
Because all of us in the world 
will be having an ageing population. 

00:32:33
DR. AIZAN
So how do we make best use 
 of the resources that we have 

00:32:39
DR. AIZAN
So that we can promote meaningful 
and active ageing for the older person. 

00:32:45
DR. AIZAN
So in terms of looking at flexible work arrangements 
and things like that. 

00:32:50
DR. AIZAN
Because if you look at the COVID situation 
that occurred two years ago 

00:32:57
DR. AIZAN
The countries really transformed 
and used technology and things like that. 

00:33:01
DR.AIZAN
But after the COVID recovery stage, 
we are going back to the old style for life. 

00:33:06
DR.AIZAN
So I think we need to look at this again 
as an opportunity and use technology in terms of this. 

00:33:14
DR.AIZAN
And many of us in our country 
are so used to face to face work. 

00:33:19
DR.AIZAN
You know, if you are not coming to the office, 
that means you're not working. 
00:33:22
DR.AIZAN
So, things like that need to change. 

00:33:24
DR.AIZAN
And then we also need to look at 
the use of technology 

00:33:24
DR.AIZAN
In helping to support older workers 
because we are in a knowledge based economy. 

00:33:34
DR.AIZAN
We don't need physical energy 
except for certain services. 

00:33:38
DR.AIZAN
And these are opportunities for us to use. 
And also we need to support, 
00:33:47
DR.AIZAN
Look at being productive longer in the employment 
and opportunities of lifelong learning and relearning new skills. 

00:33:56
DR. AIZAN
So that we can adjust to the new 
and future needs of work. 

00:33:59
DR. AIZAN
And also when you talk about that, 
you also need to consider the health sector 

00:34:02
DR. AIZAN
Because health, a lot of it now becomes 
non-communicable diseases, 

00:34:08
DR. AIZAN
But we need to adopt a more preventive health perspective. 

00:34:13
DR. AIZAN
And it may not be costly 
because we do a lot of community activities, 

00:34:18
DR. AIZAN
Physical exercise in the community 
and things like that really helps, 

00:34:21
DR. AIZAN
We have seen examples that, for example, 
in Vietnam, and also in Indonesia and in Japan 

00:34:28
DR. AIZAN
Where communities are involved 
in preventive health activities, physical activities 

00:34:34
DR. AIZAN
And looking at them and improves their health status 
and things like that. 

00:34:39
DR.AIZAN
So I think that is, we need to sort of 
stop the negative look at ageing 

00:34:45
DR.AIZAN
and look at the positive aspect 
and look at how we can take advantage 
of the longevity dividend 

00:34:50
DR.AIZAN
That all countries will be facing. Thank you. 

00:34:53
HOST 
I'd like to thank both of you for being with us, 

00:34:53
HOST
You know, for this very honest 
and straightforward conversation about ageing. 

00:35:00
HOST
And also not only that, but, you know, giving us hope 

00:35:05
HOST
in terms of the opportunities, 
the potential in growth for every country, 

00:35:11
HOST
if we just address the situation in an appropriate way 
and being very positive in terms of the golden years to come. 

00:35:20
HOST
Thank you so much for being with us here today. 

Host Conclusion
00:35:24
HOST
This has been the latest episode of 
“Hold on a Minute!” by UNFPA Asia-Pacific.  

00:35:29
HOST
We hope you have gained an insight 
into how investing in every stage of a woman’s life 

00:35:34
HOST
is crucial in countering the increasing ageing population 
in the Asia-Pacific region. 

00:35:40
HOST
For more insightful episodes of 
“Hold on a Minute!” by UNFPA Asia-Pacific, 

00:35:40
HOST 
Follow our podcast pages on Spotify, 
Facebook,YouTube, and Apple Podcast. 

00:35:51
HOST
Just search for  UNFPA “Hold on a Minute”. 
See you in our next episode!