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Hold On A Minute - Episode 8 - For Every Age of Her Life [Transcript]
HOST
Hello! You are listening to “Hold on a Minute!”,
a podcast by UNFPA Asia and the Pacific.
00:00:11
HOST
This podcast series presents inspiring and powerful stories
on the sexual and reproductive health and rights
00:00:16
HOST
of women across the Asia-Pacific region.
00:00:20
HOST
I am Poupée, Chaowarat Yongjiranon, your host.
00:00:24
HOST
On this episode of Hold on a Minute by UNFPA Asia-Pacific
entitled, Ageing with Dignity.
00:00:29
HOST
We take a look at how crucial investment at every stage
of a woman’s life is to her society and the region.
00:00:39
HOST
The Asia-Pacific region is the fastest ageing region in the world.
00:00:43
HOST
By 2050, one in four people will be well above the age of 60 years old.
00:00:49
HOST
Countries within the region are still not fully equipped
to face the challenge of increased health and social care spending
00:00:56
HOST
as the working-age population dwindles in size.
00:01:01
HOST
The decline of the fertility rate and people living longer
have contributed to larger percentages of older persons.
00:01:08
HOST
With Asia-Pacific’s population of 4.7 billion people
representing almost 60% of the world’s population,
00:01:16
HOST
The way the region handles the ageing society
will not only affect the region, but the entire world.
00:01:24
HOST
When women have the opportunity to lead healthy,
meaningful and independent older years,
00:01:31
HOST
They can actively contribute to the socioeconomic development
of the countries they live in.
00:01:37
HOST
In 2021, the UNFPA Asia-Pacific Regional Office,
with partners, launched a regional advocacy campaign titled
00:01:46
HOST
‘For Every Age: Taking a life-cycle approach
towards population ageing’.
00:01:51
HOST
With gender equality at its core,
the life-cycle approach supports investing
00:01:56
HOST
in every stage of a woman’s life, from her childhood,
adolescence, reproductive age, into older years,
00:02:04
HOST
So that she can age with good health, dignity, skills,
and the decision-making power
00:02:10
HOST
To be able to contribute to society at her fullest potential.
______________________________
THIRD VOICE
‘Hold on a Minute, a podcast series by UNFPA Asia - Pacific.’
_______________________________
Host Introducing speaker
00:02:19
HOST
To learn more about the life-cycle approach
and how important it is to invest in every stage of a woman’s life
00:02:27
HOST
Our podcast today welcomes two individuals driving this initiative.
00:02:31
HOST
Dr. Rintaro Mori is a technical advisor working on
the population ageing and low fertility in the Asia-Pacific region.
00:02:39
HOST
As a medical doctor, he has in-depth experience
in the area of health and social care for women and children
00:02:46
HOST
Both in high-income and middle-income countries.
00:02:50
HOST
Professor Dr Dato Tengku Aizan Hamid is the founding director
of the Malaysian Research Institute on Ageing (MyAgeing).
00:02:59
HOST
She has been instrumental in the development of
gerontological research, policy, and education in Malaysia
00:03:06
HOST
and sits in several national advisory
and consultative committees on ageing in Malaysia.
HOST - INTERVIEW – EXPERT TALK
00:03:13
HOST
Dr. Rintaro and Dr. Aizan. It's such a pleasure
to talk with you on such an important topic.
00:03:19
HOST
And that is, you know, the ageing society,
00:03:23
HOST
Asia and the Pacific region is quite vast
and it's very dynamic.
00:03:27
HOST
Dr. Rintaro, can you explain to us a bit about the key features
of population dynamics in the region?
00:03:34
DR.RINTARO
Yeah, thank you very much, Khun Poupee.
00:03:37
DR.RINTARO
Yes, if I am asked to describe the population trend
in Asia Pacific, in one word, it's a diversity.
00:03:46
DR.RINTARO
You know, there are many countries in Asia Pacific where, you know
for example, a country like Afghanistan, Pakistan.
00:03:53
DR.RINTARO
There are still very young populations
and they are still growing, very sort of, rapidly.
00:04:01
DR.RINTARO
Whereas, the other countries like Malaysia,
Thailand, Japan and China,
00:04:07
DR.RINTARO
You know, fertility is declining.
And so the population is ageing.
00:04:10
DR.RINTARO
So we have a very diverse, you know, population
in our region at the same time.
00:04:16
DR.RINTARO
As overall the majority of the countries in Asia and the Pacific
are actually sort of showing the population decline
00:04:25
DR.RINTARO
Or actually the slowness of the population growth actually.
That's sort of the overall trend.
00:04:31
HOST
Population ageing, on one hand it’s a representation of progress
00:04:35
HOST
Because people are having better autonomy of their bodies,
empowered to have their own choices
00:04:40
HOST
And have access to family planning services
and also better health overall.
00:04:45
HOST
But on the other hand, there are challenges
for an ageing society.
00:04:49
HOST
Dr. Aizan, can you tell us what are the main challenges
and what are the main concerns right now
00:04:55
HOST
for policymakers about ageing societies?
00:05:00
DR. AIZAN
If you look at the challenges of population ageing,
it's multifaceted in terms of the challenges.
00:05:08
DR. AIZAN
And also, it is quite difficult and it’s quite complex
for the government to address the population ageing issues.
00:05:19
DR. AIZAN
And it requires coordinated effort
from various government departments and sectors.
00:05:25
DR. AIZAN
And policymakers must balance the immediate needs
of the older persons with long term sustainability
and security consideration.
00:05:33
DR. AIZAN
So therefore, the policymakers need to adapt
to the evolving demographics of population ageing.
00:05:39
DR. AIZAN
But let me say in two perspectives, because
we need to look at the problems of old age
at the individual level
00:05:47
DR. AIZAN
Which is poor health, loneliness,
social isolation, impoverishment and so on.
00:05:53
DR. AIZAN
And we also need to look at the problems of an ageing society.
00:05:57
DR. AIZAN
So we have two different perspectives.
00:05:59
DR. AIZAN
When you talk about this at the individual level
in terms of policymakers,
00:06:05
DR. AIZAN
You have to look at how to address
the risk of poverty in old age
00:06:10
DR. AIZAN
and also to look at how we want to reduce the inequality
in the health of these people.
00:06:18
DR. AIZAN
And because of this issue, in terms of old age problems,
it is dependent on the trajectory of life
00:06:26
DR. AIZAN
and the social capital of the families
and where they live in the areas of the country.
00:06:34
DR. AIZAN
So in terms of accessibility
to health services and things like that,
00:06:40
DR. AIZAN
And also to look at the social capital
that is surrounding the older person themself.
00:06:47
DR. AIZAN
So we need to look at the preventive aspect
of promotion of health
00:06:52
DR. AIZAN
so that the older person that is growing
from the life course perspective
have access to prevent ailments in later life.
00:07:02
DR. AIZAN
So that is the perspective from the individual old age problem.
00:07:06
DR. AIZAN
In terms of the societal problem, as Dr. Rintaro mentioned,
the population dynamics is changing
00:07:12
DR. AIZAN
And also the issues of economic dynamism,
shrinking of working population,
00:07:19
DR. AIZAN
Increasing old age dependency
and increasing generational burden,
00:07:26
DR. AIZAN
The rising costs of welfare and age care,
increasing healthcare cost and new demands
00:07:31
DR. AIZAN
which we might not even anticipate in the future,
in terms of that.
00:07:37
DR. AIZAN
With the flow of the population dynamics.
00:07:42
DR. AIZAN
Therefore, we need to look at how to encourage
labour force participation of women
00:07:48
DR. AIZAN
and older men or older persons,
as well as encouraging longer employment,
00:07:53
DR. AIZAN
Especially among skilled workers and professionals,
00:07:56
DR. AIZAN
and also to reduce unemployment among younger people.
00:08:00
DR. AIZAN
Because all these issues with unemployment at a young age
00:08:05
DR. AIZAN
would affect them when they grow old.
00:08:07
DR. AIZAN
So those are some of the issues or the policy
that needs to be addressed in terms of poverty
00:08:15
DR. AIZAN
And in terms of the financing of old age.
00:08:18
DR. AIZAN
We need to look at building the funding component of pensions
00:08:23
DR. AIZAN
Through encouraging individuals to save for their old age,
00:08:26
DR. AIZAN
Because we know the pension commitment is very high
and may be not sustainable.
00:08:34
DR. AIZAN
And we also need to look at including incentives for funding
for old age pensions and services
00:08:41
DR. AIZAN
So that the system can be sustainable.
00:08:44
DR. AIZAN
In other aspects of the care of the older person
00:08:47
DR. AIZAN
We need to look at the containment of welfare
and old age care cost,
00:08:52
DR. AIZAN
Through a spending of partnership between families,
volunteers, private sector providers,
00:08:58
DR. AIZAN
philanthropic organisation and government bodies
00:09:01
DR. AIZAN
In the provision and through continuous
rationalisation of old aged care
00:09:08
DR. AIZAN
Because we cannot depend on one system
and in our part of the world,
00:09:16
DR. AIZAN
The formal institution is very costly
and we have not developed actually a funding mechanism
00:09:20
DR. AIZAN
To look at the old aged care
and the increasing costs of institutionalisation.
00:09:27
DR. AIZAN
Addressing ageing needs long term perspective,
and presently many initiatives are short term.
00:09:33
DR. AIZAN
So that means that we need to really look at the political view
of looking at how we should handle this issue.
00:09:42
DR. AIZAN
And also looking at the collaboration part of the individual,
the community, the civil society,
00:09:50
DR. AIZAN
the private sectors and the government together
00:09:54
DR. AIZAN
trying to solve the major issue of age problem
in the Asia-Pacific region.
00:10:02
HOST
It’s such an eye opener,
I think, for people perhaps, maybe, like me,
00:10:07
HOST
who have learned that, you know,
Ageing is an issue in our society.
00:10:13
HOST
If you talk about the region itself.
00:10:16
HOST
And in terms of the various solutions that are possible
00:10:19
HOST
And the challenges that you've just mentioned
that are faced for each country,
00:10:24
HOST
But to get to know more about the situation
and for our listeners to really understand
00:10:29
HOST
What an impact it is in terms of this topic on our lives
00:10:34
HOST
We have a special story about a character or person
00:10:40
HOST
That is named ‘Oum’. So let's listen to the story.
FEATURE STORY - Oum
00:10:45
My name is Oum. I am 70 years old.
00:10:50
I am a mother of two, and grandmother of one.
00:10:56
My husband passed away two years ago
00:11:00
And it has been tough
since losing my life-partner of 40 years.
00:11:06
But I get fulfilment and a sense of purpose
00:11:11
From volunteering in the community centre in my town.
00:11:18
There, I teach migrants
how to read and write in the local language.
00:11:25
I use my experience as a school teacher
00:11:30
Which I had practised for 35 years
00:11:34
Before retiring at the age of 60.
00:11:38
I come from a humble background.
My mother could not go to school.
00:11:45
That limited her opportunities significantly,
but she was determined
00:11:53
that her daughters receive a good education.
00:11:57
She and my father worked hard in the field,
and earned enough to support my and my siblings’ education.
00:12:08
I studied hard,
and became a science teacher at the age of 25.
00:12:16
That’s also around the time
I met my future husband.
00:12:23
When we first got married,
we were not ready to have children right away.
00:12:30
So I went to see the midwife
in the nearby health clinic
00:12:36
To receive information and services for family planning.
00:12:43
We had our first daughter
5 years into our marriage
00:12:48
When both my husband and I felt ready
to start a family.
00:12:55
My in-laws expected me to resign from my job
to dedicate myself to raising our child.
00:13:07
But thankfully, my husband supported my wish
to continue working,
00:13:13
And together we raised our two beautiful daughters.
00:13:19
Looking back, I am grateful for the support I received
and the choices I made.
00:13:28
I am happy to see both my daughters independent
with established careers.
00:13:35
I am thankful for the pension I receive
from having worked as a teacher
00:13:44
And the financial independence that brings.
00:13:48
I thoroughly enjoy volunteering,
sharing my knowledge and skills.
00:13:55
I believe we all have something to contribute
at every stage of our lives, including in our older years.
00:14:08
I hope to stay active and healthy,
to keep doing what I love
00:14:08
and I enjoy time with my family and my friends.
—-----------------------------------------------------------
00:14:18
HOST
Okay, So Dr. Rintaro,
We've just heard a very inspiring story.
00:14:24
Hopefully when I am 70 years old,
I can be as active as this person.
00:14:31
But what would you say about the factors
in Oum’s environment which enabled her
00:14:40
to age with such dignity and hope?
00:14:45
DR.RINTARO
Yeah. Thank you very much.
I think they showed everyone the bright side of the population ageing.
00:14:51
DR.RINTARO
You know, it is really fascinating
to sort of listen to her story,
00:14:58
DR.RINTARO
The story of the lady with the bright side.
00:14:58
DR.RINTARO
And I think that speaks to what Dr. Aizan mentioned
as well as I think it does speak to, actually,
00:15:06
DR.RINTARO
What I actually mentioned at the beginning.
00:15:09
DR.RINTARO
Why the Asia Pacific is enjoying the population ageing
and I think we actually observe the slowness of the population growth
00:15:18
DR.RINTARO
And that actually came from a lot of actual development,
a lot of good things being implemented.
00:15:25
DR.RINTARO
For example, you know, listen to her story.
00:15:28
DR.RINTARO
You know, her hard-working parents
actually invested a lot of her education, right.
00:15:33
DR.RINTARO
In education and herself.
00:15:36
DR.RINTARO
And also I think she had a lot of,
actually sort of the reproductive choices came in.
00:15:42
DR.RINTARO
So she had a choice to determine
when and how to have a child.
00:15:47
DR.RINTARO
And I think she was actually with a very good husband,
understanding of various issues
00:15:52
DR.RINTARO
Which were not the case in the past.
00:15:56
DR.RINTARO
So this actually a good environment
where she had an early stage of their life
00:16:01
DR.RINTARO
That's all led to the brightness
of the actual later stage of her life.
00:16:07
DR.RINTARO
This is actually very important.
Key message actually I got from her story.
00:16:13
HOST
You know, when we talk about solutions,
there is the concept of life cycle approach.
00:16:20
HOST
Dr. Aizan, can you explain this concept a little bit
in terms of how it is put in practice.
00:16:26
HOST
And what does this mean in terms of national policies
and what can governments do with it?
00:16:33
DR.AIZAN
If you look at ageing,
we don't suddenly become aged, right?
00:16:37
DR.AIZAN
So we go through the life course processes
and of course, because of that,
00:16:42
DR.AIZAN
there are important issues that need to be addressed
in the different stages of development.
00:16:51
DR.AIZAN
So if you look at the life cycle approach
in terms of national policy,
00:16:55
DR.AIZAN
It is a framework that recognizes the different stages
of an individual's life and tailors government policies
00:17:02
DR.AIZAN
And programmes to address specific needs
and challenges people face at each stage,
00:17:08
DR.AIZAN
Each one goes to various phases from birth to old age.
00:17:11
DR.AIZAN
And each one of us goes through these trajectories differently
depending on our family capital and resources,
00:17:18
DR.AIZAN
location of residence and so forth.
00:17:21
DR. AIZAN
So the lifecycle approach recognizes
that individuals need to evolve over time
00:17:25
DR. AIZAN
And policies should adapt accordingly
to support their wellbeing and maximize their potential.
00:17:30
DR. AIZAN
It requires a holistic and integrated approach
to policy making that considers the entire life course of individuals
00:17:38
DR. AIZAN
And aims to create a more equitable
and inclusive society.
00:17:42
DR. AIZAN
So if we look at the lifecycle stages,
I would like to share some of the policy perspectives
00:17:48
DR. AIZAN
that we may consider.
00:17:50
DR. AIZAN
For example, the first one will be the prenatal
and the early childhood stage of life.
00:17:55
DR. AIZAN
The focus at this stage probably would be
on policies of maternal and child health
00:18:00
DR. AIZAN
And the investment in prenatal maternal health care
to ensure healthy pregnancies and safe childbirth.
00:18:09
DR. AIZAN
And also to have access to prenatal care,
vaccination programmes and neonatal care.
00:18:15
DR. AIZAN
So the importance is the investment
in the first five years of life
at the prenatal and early childhood stage,
00:18:22
DR. AIZAN
And also early childhood education and care
is also critical at this stage.
00:18:29
DR.AIZAN
And in the second stage,
let's look at education and youth,
00:18:33
DR.AIZAN
Where there needs to be an access to education
to focus on providing equitable access to education
00:18:40
DR.AIZAN
At all levels from early childhood
through higher education.
00:18:43
DR.AIZAN
And the third stage which I lumped together
as family and parenting,
00:18:48
DR.AIZAN
Where we need to also consider parental leave
to support families during the early years of the child's life
00:18:54
DR.AIZAN
And also to have family support services,
which is acceptable and affordable,
00:19:00
DR.AIZAN
To include health care, counselling, childcare
and help families to balance work and family life.
00:19:07
DR.AIZAN
In the fourth stage as we enter into life,
we go through employment and the adulthood part of it
00:19:14
DR.AIZAN
Where we need to have labour market policies.
00:19:17
DR.AIZAN
We should implement that to support job creation,
fair labour practices and employment opportunities for all ages.
00:19:26
DR.AIZAN
And we also need to look at creating a safety net
for programmes and policies
00:19:31
DR.AIZAN
to protect individuals and families
during periods of unemployment
or even economic hardship.
00:19:38
DR. AIZAN
And this aspect is critical because right now
we have a lot of gig economy and things like that
00:19:45
DR. AIZAN
Which are not really being considered
in the present social protection programme.
00:19:52
DR. AIZAN
So we need to look at how we can seize the gig economy,
which is happening a lot in our region.
00:19:59
DR. AIZAN
So to have some social protection programmes
for them in later life, and also for carers.
00:20:06
DR.AIZAN
Because many of us depend on family carers
or informal carers who care for older persons
00:20:13
DR.AIZAN
And many of these carers are what you call,
maybe they sacrifice their work life
00:20:18
DR.AIZAN
to care for the other person
because they have no alternative.
00:20:22
DR.AIZAN
So what happens to these carers
that resign from work, let’s say.
00:20:28
DR.AIZAN
And then when they become old,
What are the resources?
00:20:30
DR.AIZAN
What social protection do they get
if they become older and things like that? Okay.
00:20:36
DR.AIZAN
So the fifth part will be the middle age of the people,
00:20:41
DR.AIZAN
We need to look at the work life balance
to promote policies that enable work life balance to happen,
00:20:47
DR.AIZAN
Flexible work arrangements
and support caregiving opportunities.
00:20:50
DR.AIZAN
And in many families,
a lot of us are facing the sandwich generation.
00:20:56
DR.AIZAN
So we need to look at the family friendly policies
that will help us to cater for both the needs of our children
00:20:56
DR.AIZAN
And also taking care of the older person
and the issue of training
00:21:11
DR.AIZAN
And retraining of workers at these areas
in this space so that we can have opportunities
00:21:16
DR.AIZAN
For ongoing education and skills development
to help individual adapt to changing job market
00:21:21
DR.AIZAN
And lifelong learning opportunities must be available
so that they can transition into another job
and a career after they retire.
00:21:32
DR.AIZAN
And lastly, in terms of retirement and older adults,
the pension system, as I mentioned earlier,
00:21:38
DR.AIZAN
We don't really have a very solid pension system
except for a few countries in the Asia-Pacific region
00:21:45
DR.AIZAN
That we need to ensure the sustainability
and adequacy of the pension system
00:21:51
DR.AIZAN
To support retirees and also to look at the needs
of the health care of older people in this phase of life.
00:22:01
DR.AIZAN
You need to invest in healthcare
to address the specific needs of older people,
00:22:06
DR.AIZAN
Preventive care, chronic disease management,
and also hospice and palliative care.
00:22:11
DR.AIZAN
We have to make sure that is available
and provide that compassionate assistance
in daily life activities.
00:22:20
DR.AIZAN
And other aspects that we seldom touch,
is about housing.
00:22:24
DR.AIZAN
We need to create friendly housing policies
to allow older adults through this
00:22:31
DR.AIZAN
Or other housing options so that older adults
have a choice of residence in later life.
00:22:35
HOST
It's really in terms of the core of it is security,
isn't it?
00:22:41
HOST
You know, the sense of security for people,
as you know, in all stages of life to feel secure
00:22:46
HOST
that they have the support system
that they need to start a family
00:22:52
HOST
Or to grow their family and then to age gracefully.
00:22:58
HOST
And a lot of countries are struggling a bit.
I mean, in terms of finding the right kind of pace
00:23:04
HOST
The right kind of set of policies that fit them.
And a good example, as you just mentioned, is Japan
00:23:08
HOST
In terms of how they have evolved their policies
to try and parallel it with the ongoing situation
00:23:16
HOST
With trends that are quite dynamic.
It's changing all the time.
00:23:20
HOST
But at the end of the day,
it serves the country to do the work
00:23:26
HOST
To try and support it. Because, you know,
if you talk about the concept of demographic dividend,
00:23:32
HOST
You know, you know which countries go through
before transitioning to ageing societies
00:23:38
HOST
It's quite significant. Dr. Rintaro, can you explain what,
you know, this concept of demographic dividend means
00:23:45
HOST
And what countries can do to make the most of them?
00:23:49
HOST
And how is this concept relevant to countries
as they prepare to have, you know,
an older generation.
00:23:57
DR. RINTARO
Yeah. Thank you very much for asking.
00:23:59
I think if we focus on lifecycle approach
from the individual perspective
00:24:03
DR. RINTARO
I mean the we listen to the the beautiful story of the lady
and I think we looked at individuals
00:24:11
DR. RINTARO
How the you know the early stages are very important
and as professor Aizan mentioned
00:24:17
DR. RINTARO
How the government should and also
are supporting each stage of her life as a person
00:24:20
DR. RINTARO
When the person [can] have
a sort of a happy and healthy age.
00:24:31
DR. RINTARO
But I think the discussion or conversations
around demographic dividends.
00:24:35
DR. RINTARO
I think that's more sort of looking at it at a society level,
population level, group of people.
00:24:43
DR. RINTARO
So demographic dividend means that,
00:24:44
DR. RINTARO
You know, when society's ageing
and many governments are worried about
00:24:44
DR. RINTARO
You know, the proportion of the working age
among all the population.
00:24:55
DR. RINTARO
I mean, that means I think they are,
you know, vice versa.
00:24:58
DR. RINTARO
How are the working age people
actually supporting people who need care
00:25:05
DR. RINTARO
Including older persons, children,
people with a disability,
00:25:08
DR. RINTARO
How can the whole society support them.
00:25:12
DR. RINTARO
You know, we listen to a lot of policy
examples from professor Aizan,
00:25:17
DR. RINTARO
And then immediately what governments worry about is,
do we have money to support it, is that enough.
00:25:23
DR. RINTARO
And particularly looking at Japan,
the most ageing country in the world
00:25:30
DR. RINTARO
This means that we actually have
a shrinking working age population,
00:25:33
DR. RINTARO
And whether this is going to be sustainable.
00:25:35
DR. RINTARO
The conversations around sort of the life cycle approach
from the population perspective
00:25:42
DR. RINTARO
Actually talked about demographic dividend,
how we can maximize this actually different proportion.
00:25:51
DR. RINTARO
There are lots of tips around that,
you know as professor Aizan mentioned,
00:25:55
DR. RINTARO
When we think about older persons
let's say 60 years old person,
00:26:01
DR. RINTARO
20 years ago and 60 years old,
these days they're completely different,
00:26:06
DR. RINTARO
They're much healthier, they're willing to work
and can actually contribute to society more.
00:26:13
DR. RINTARO
So we actually need to change our mindset
that the older persons need to care.
00:26:18
DR. RINTARO
They can contribute to the society economically,
societally or, you know, they have a role as well.
00:26:25
DR. RINTARO
And also, many countries in our region have gender issues,
including my country, Japan.
00:26:32
DR. RINTARO
You know, there are many more women willing to work
but cannot because of gender issues in the society.
00:26:40
DR. RINTARO
So how we can maximize the demographic dividend
it's actually, you know,
00:26:44
DR. RINTARO
How we can actually promote the older persons
who want to work, to be working
or contributing to society.
00:26:51
DR. RINTARO
What we can do to actually sort of promote women
who want to work, can work.
00:26:57
DR. RINTARO
So we call this, the gender dividend
and also the silver dividend.
00:27:01
DR. RINTARO
Then, you know, the whole society can sustain
because we can have more working people.
00:27:08
DR. RINTARO
And so you know, we are talking about
sort of the ageing as a problem, but it's not
00:27:13
DR. RINTARO
If you can actually maximize
the demographic dividend conversations
00:27:20
DR. RINTARO
And we have a right place
and right policy in place to support them.
00:27:23
DR. RINTARO
That is, the demographic dividends
and we don't need to worry about [ageing societies].
00:27:27
DR. RINTARO
So to enable us not to be so worried about the future
in terms of economic sustainability of the society.
00:27:34
DR. RINTARO
We really need to think about it.
We need to change our mindset.
00:27:37
DR. RINTARO
We need to have a right policy in place
to maximize the demographic dividend.
00:27:43
HOST
Well said. Well said. And I think that,
you know, ultimately, at the end of the day,
00:27:48
HOST
As you just mentioned there,
00:27:49
HOST
That it's just not and we've been talking about it
throughout this conversation,
00:27:54
HOST
That there's no one, you know,
key solution for each country
and it's quite insightful.
00:28:00
HOST
Dr. Rintaro, about your example of your home country.
00:28:04
HOST
But as to what Dr. Rintaro said, you know,
00:28:07
HOST
It's really multifaceted in terms of the mindset of our society
the mindset of our community.
00:28:14
HOST
And we have to think about everyone as a stakeholder.
00:28:17
HOST
So. Dr. Aizan,we take it when we look at that in that aspect,
in terms of the private sector, for example,
00:28:24
HOST
What can be done more from everyone
00:28:28
HOST
To ensure that, you know,
as a community, as a country,
00:28:32
HOST
We have a healthier and meaningful life
for everyone as they age.
00:28:37
DR. AIZAN
I want to look at this from the longevity agenda
because I think that would be a more positive way
of looking at ageing.
00:28:46
DR. AIZAN
Because when you talk about ageing,
it's always negative.
00:28:49
DR. AIZAN
But if you look at longer lives,
00:28:52
DR. AIZAN
Then that means you have things to do
to prepare for your longer life.
00:28:56
DR. AIZAN
How do you fill up those longer lives that you have?
00:28:59
DR. AIZAN
So I think from the individual level perspective,
longer life means you have survived the challenges
00:29:06
DR. AIZAN
And you have actually reached,
you’re blessed actually to be, to live a longer life.
00:29:10
DR. AIZAN
And therefore we need to learn on
how we should take advantage of our longevity.
00:29:16
DR. AIZAN
We are living longer and healthier,
as Dr. Rintaro mentioned.
00:29:20
DR. AIZAN
You need to imagine
what kind of life that we can choose.
00:29:26
DR.AIZAN
But also in our perspective of this country,
we have, as we said, gender issues,
00:29:32
DR.AIZAN
We also have cultural issues because
we have social norms related to the concept of age.
00:29:41
DR.AIZAN
At a certain age, you should behave like this,
at a certain age, you should behave like that.
00:29:45
DR.AIZAN
So, but all these norms probably in the longevity agenda
may not be relevant anymore
00:29:51
DR.AIZAN
Because you have to recreate
what you want for what life you want to have
00:29:56
DR.AIZAN
In terms of your own life patterns.
00:30:00
DR. AIZAN
So in that sense,
then you need to look at the norms
00:30:03
DR. AIZAN
That we will develop in the future,
but also the norms that we design
00:30:11
DR. AIZAN
Well also means that there must be opportunities
for us to have the new age
00:30:17
DR. AIZAN
Or the new look at old age
because we have a new perspective,
a more positive perspective.
00:30:23
DR. AIZAN
Because if individually
you are negative about your old age,
then nothing matters.
00:30:28
DR. AIZAN
But in longevity, where you have longer life
and healthier life, you need to create meaning in your life.
00:30:38
DR. AIZAN
So you need to look at what opportunities
are available and things like that in the community
00:30:40
DR. AIZAN
And surrounding you and
what defines you as an older person.
00:30:44
DR. AIZAN
So that becomes a very individualistic way
of looking at how to fulfil a meaningful life in old age.
00:30:52
DR.AIZAN
And if you look at the societal level
in terms of looking at the longevity dividend
00:30:58
DR.AIZAN
You really need to look at
how we support older workers
00:31:02
DR.AIZAN
In terms of reemployment opportunities
and things like that.
00:31:06
DR.AIZAN
For example, like in Japan, as we always look towards
Japan in terms of ageing,
00:31:12
DR.AIZAN
In terms of reemployment policies
and also the definition and opportunities available there.
00:31:19
DR.AIZAN
In Singapore, I think there are
reemployment opportunities and policies.
00:31:23
DR.AIZAN
But in other countries in our region,
I don't think we have that
reemployment policy for older persons
00:31:29
DR.AIZAN
Because that is the misconception
that the older person would take over
00:31:34
DR.AIZAN
the positions of the younger workers
and the literature doesn't show that to happen.
00:31:40
DR.AIZAN
So this myth about the older person
taking over the opportunities or work of the younger person
00:31:46
DR.AIZAN
Is not, may not be true. But also another aspect of it
is to look at the ageism surrounding ageing.
00:31:56
DR.AIZAN
For example, the corporate bodies
will not take an older person and things like that.
00:32:03
DR.AIZAN
And because it's costly and all those things.
00:32:05
DR.AIZAN
So we need to look at the whole spectrum
of society looking at ageing itself
00:32:10
DR.AIZAN
Because ageing doesn't mean anything
because it’s just years.
00:32:14
DR.AIZAN
But if the institutions are looking at it
from a negative perspective
00:32:20
DR.AIZAN
Then a lot of things cannot happen.
So we need to change to look at ageing
00:32:25
DR.AIZAN
as a positive psychology,
as a positive resource in the future
00:32:29
DR.AIZAN
Because all of us in the world
will be having an ageing population.
00:32:33
DR. AIZAN
So how do we make best use
of the resources that we have
00:32:39
DR. AIZAN
So that we can promote meaningful
and active ageing for the older person.
00:32:45
DR. AIZAN
So in terms of looking at flexible work arrangements
and things like that.
00:32:50
DR. AIZAN
Because if you look at the COVID situation
that occurred two years ago
00:32:57
DR. AIZAN
The countries really transformed
and used technology and things like that.
00:33:01
DR.AIZAN
But after the COVID recovery stage,
we are going back to the old style for life.
00:33:06
DR.AIZAN
So I think we need to look at this again
as an opportunity and use technology in terms of this.
00:33:14
DR.AIZAN
And many of us in our country
are so used to face to face work.
00:33:19
DR.AIZAN
You know, if you are not coming to the office,
that means you're not working.
00:33:22
DR.AIZAN
So, things like that need to change.
00:33:24
DR.AIZAN
And then we also need to look at
the use of technology
00:33:24
DR.AIZAN
In helping to support older workers
because we are in a knowledge based economy.
00:33:34
DR.AIZAN
We don't need physical energy
except for certain services.
00:33:38
DR.AIZAN
And these are opportunities for us to use.
And also we need to support,
00:33:47
DR.AIZAN
Look at being productive longer in the employment
and opportunities of lifelong learning and relearning new skills.
00:33:56
DR. AIZAN
So that we can adjust to the new
and future needs of work.
00:33:59
DR. AIZAN
And also when you talk about that,
you also need to consider the health sector
00:34:02
DR. AIZAN
Because health, a lot of it now becomes
non-communicable diseases,
00:34:08
DR. AIZAN
But we need to adopt a more preventive health perspective.
00:34:13
DR. AIZAN
And it may not be costly
because we do a lot of community activities,
00:34:18
DR. AIZAN
Physical exercise in the community
and things like that really helps,
00:34:21
DR. AIZAN
We have seen examples that, for example,
in Vietnam, and also in Indonesia and in Japan
00:34:28
DR. AIZAN
Where communities are involved
in preventive health activities, physical activities
00:34:34
DR. AIZAN
And looking at them and improves their health status
and things like that.
00:34:39
DR.AIZAN
So I think that is, we need to sort of
stop the negative look at ageing
00:34:45
DR.AIZAN
and look at the positive aspect
and look at how we can take advantage
of the longevity dividend
00:34:50
DR.AIZAN
That all countries will be facing. Thank you.
00:34:53
HOST
I'd like to thank both of you for being with us,
00:34:53
HOST
You know, for this very honest
and straightforward conversation about ageing.
00:35:00
HOST
And also not only that, but, you know, giving us hope
00:35:05
HOST
in terms of the opportunities,
the potential in growth for every country,
00:35:11
HOST
if we just address the situation in an appropriate way
and being very positive in terms of the golden years to come.
00:35:20
HOST
Thank you so much for being with us here today.
Host Conclusion
00:35:24
HOST
This has been the latest episode of
“Hold on a Minute!” by UNFPA Asia-Pacific.
00:35:29
HOST
We hope you have gained an insight
into how investing in every stage of a woman’s life
00:35:34
HOST
is crucial in countering the increasing ageing population
in the Asia-Pacific region.
00:35:40
HOST
For more insightful episodes of
“Hold on a Minute!” by UNFPA Asia-Pacific,
00:35:40
HOST
Follow our podcast pages on Spotify,
Facebook,YouTube, and Apple Podcast.
00:35:51
HOST
Just search for UNFPA “Hold on a Minute”.
See you in our next episode!
