Hold on a minute-Episode 6 transcript

Host Introduction

00:00:04;01

HOST

Hello! You are listening to “Hold on a Minute!”, a podcast by UNFPA Asia and the Pacific. This podcast series presents inspiring and powerful stories on the sexual and reproductive health and rights of women across the Asia-Pacific region.  I am Poupée, Chaowarat Yongjiranon, your host.  

 

00:00:23:23

HOST

On this episode of Hold on a Minute! By UNFPA Asia-Pacific, we look at what the International Conference on Population and Development or ICPD is and why it matters by reflecting on the career of former Regional Director for UNFPA Asia and the Pacific, Björn Andersson. 

 

00:00:43:18

HOST

ICPD was the result of a 1994 meeting in Cairo where 179 governments adopted a revolutionary programme of Action and called for women’s reproductive health and rights to be on the center stage of national and global development efforts. Over the decades, this mandate has helped countries shape their policies to be more focused on women’s rights.

 

00:01:09:17

HOST

Yet, globally, and specifically in the Asia-Pacific region, megatrends such as migration, urbanization, aging, climate change, and digitalization are changing the way governments are accelerating the ICPD programme of action. 

 

Host Introducing Speaker 

 

00:01:27:16

HOST

 

Today we are very honored to be able to gain insights from former Regional Director for UNFPA Asia and the Pacific, Björn Andersson on the ICPD.  Björn ended his assignment in August 2023 after serving the position for over six years. Prior to his time as regional director, he served as Chief of Staff to two Executive Directors of UNFPA from 2013 to 2017.  

 

00:01:57:06

HOST

During his three decades of extensive experience in international development cooperation, Björn has held key positions in programmeme management, policy development, and strategic organizational management in the UN system and government agencies

 

00:02:13:02

HOST

Björn shares his insights on the evolution of the ICPD over the last three decades as someone who has been there from the start and helped support the preparations for the revolutionary conference held in Cairo in 1994.   

 

Expert Talk Q&A

00:02:29:02

HOST

Bjorn, you have just completed six years of serving as Regional Director for UNFPA, Asia and the Pacific Regional Office, and I'm so happy to have this opportunity to speak with you on this special episode of our podcast series, where we would like to really hear your reflections on the population dynamics in Asia and the Pacific.

 

00:02:50:20

HOST

So, let's start with some general reflections from you. Looking back, can you tell us how it has been for you to serve in this role? 

 

00:02:58:02

BJORN

Personally, it has been the most job satisfaction I've had in my whole career. I started with UNFPA in 1993 and have worked on and off in the organization and the Swedish government.

 

00:03:16:10

BJORN

It has been really an eye opener in many ways. I think Asia and the Pacific is, if not the most, certainly among the most dynamic regions in the world. If you look at it, a great diversity between countries. And that, of course, has challenged us in implementing or moving towards the ICPD, the programme of Action, the International Conference on Population and Development, which was held in 1994.

 

00:03:52:12

BJORN

And I think if I briefly can go back to that time, it was very different. We were just getting out of many years of talking about population targets, talking about population growth. So of course, that was on the mind among participants at the time. But the conference really changed the concept of how we were working and approaching population and development issues to place human rights in the forefront together with gender equality.

 

00:04:29:13

BJORN

And I think that has then over the years, just reflected well into the work on UNFPA in Asia and the Pacific. And we have been able or what I have seen also during the past few years been able to make great progress in all different parts of the population and development agenda. I'm thinking about maternal health and family planning, but at the same time, there are gaps.

 

00:04:59:03

BJORN

There are many, many challenges remaining to reach the zero preventable maternal deaths and to reach zero unmet need for family planning services. Where we still have a huge challenge is on gender-based violence. We have made great progress in better data, in better evidence, which helps us to have a more effective and impactful communication with the government representatives and other partners.

 

00:05:32:22

BJORN

And that is a great progress in itself. And then, of course, all of this data needs to be translated into programmeming in communities and in countries. I also think that UNFPA in Asia and the Pacific region over the past six years have highlighted clearly issues around population, aging and low fertility. And low fertility is something which is very new to many countries, especially in this region, compared to when we had ICPD in 1994.

 

00:06:12:08

HOST

Well, you know, what's interesting is, is the points that you mentioned in terms of how there has been progress. But at the same time, there's still a lot of challenges. And you mentioned the ICPD, the International Conference on Population Development programme of Action. Can you tell us a little bit more for the listeners what exactly that is and why does it matter for all nations and individuals?

 

00:06:39:08

BJORN

So ICPD stands for the International Conference on Population and Development. Or we also often say the Cairo conference because it was held in Cairo in Egypt in 1994. If you look at what happened in the nineties, there were many global conferences. You had the Rio Conference on Sustainable Development, you had the Beijing Conference on Women's Empowerment and Gender Equality.

 

00:07:04:14

BJORN

You had the Copenhagen conference on social development and then you had the Cairo conference. So in the 1990s we had an environment globally where you had government officials coming together with civil society organizations, with activists, especially women's organizations, together with academia, young people. And that movement that I saw when I participated in the Cairo conference myself was quite unique. And that was a unique moment in the sense that we here managed to, of the global community, manage to have a conference as a basis as one basis for the Sustainable Development Goals, which were then developed much later.

 

00:07:58:07

BJORN

And so it really meant a shift in the thinking around, yes, population development, but perhaps more importantly, around sexual and reproductive health and rights, including maternal health, family planning, comprehensive sexuality education, the need for young people to have accurate information about sexuality and relationships and all of that. 

 

00:08:27:06

BJORN

So it was groundbreaking, I would say. And of course, at that time when I participated, you know, you didn't realize that, you know, that it would become so groundbreaking as it has.

 

00:08:38:23

BJORN

And the fact that we are still referring to the ICPD programme of action now almost 30 years after its endorsement, just speaks for itself right, how important it is. But at the same time, we also have to be very clear how we are communicating about the substantive part of the ICPD programme of action. So if you talk to a young person today who might have been born after the Cairo conference, ICPD doesn't really mean anything.

 

00:09:10:09

BJORN

So it's important to flag for especially young people to use that it's about their bodies, about their bodily autonomy, about their rights to sexual and reproductive health, about their rights not to be married before the age of 18. It's about them growing up to become members of communities and be active, and drive the development in their respective countries.

 

00:09:44:09

BJORN

And all of that is grounded in their comprehensive or holistic approach to sexual and reproductive health and rights that you can't just single out one part of it and think that that is the solution. The issues around SRHR or in population and development are very personal, but they are at the same time very political in many ways. And I think that political aspects of population and development on reproductive health – we are still seeing that today in different shapes and forms in Asia and the Pacific.

 

00:10:19:16

BJORN

So while the ICPD has put on the map human rights, women's rights, women's empowerment and gender equality, there is also resistance in many countries around and around the world to make sure that we can fulfill what governments agreed to achieve in the ICPD programme of action. 

 

00:10:42:23 

HOST

From listening to you, Bjorn, I feel that it's so fascinating that you've been there since the beginning. And, you know, even though time flies, you know, that period of 30 years, you know, throughout the various challenges that has been seen and and also in terms of the different aspects that have evolved along the way, how culture society has changed and also the dealings with different stakeholders.

 

00:11:10:03

HOST

It's quite a big achievement, you know, And since the ICPD programme of Action has been adopted in 1994, this means that, you know, as you mentioned, it's going to reach the 30 year milestone soon, since its adoption. Let us pause and think about what has been done. You tease a little bit about, you know, the work that has been done.

 

00:11:31:21

HOST

But in terms of what I just mentioned, you know, the various big stakeholders involved in this situation, how are UNFPA and the governments taking stock and marking this important occasion? 

 

00:11:45:19

BJORN

So the way that we are working as a UN agency to promote and to advance the ICPD programme of action, I just want to say first that having seen this development, having been part of this process for so many years, I am actually relieved in a way that ICPD also was one input into the Sustainable Development Goals, which the world community adopted back in 2014, if I'm not mistaken. 

 

00:12:18:04

BJORN

If you look at the Sustainable Development Goals, you have access to reproductive health clearly in it. You have health issues, gender equality, human rights and good governance and all these aspects which are so important for achieving sexual and reproductive health and rights, universal access to sexual and reproductive health and rights, and also to address population and development and the megatrends we can see in societies today or at the regional level.

 

00:12:50:00

BJORN

And that is, you know, I think that is a notion that has sort of grown over the years since Cairo that people's health, people's wellbeing is so important to achieve sustainable development goals. You know, you have to see the environment, economic growth and social development hand in hand that they are linked very clearly. And I think this is something that has come out more clearly over the past few years. The importance also to make sure that women can deliver safely, that women, men and young people have access to family planning services or contraceptives.

 

00:13:39:08

BJORN

And I think that's why you find the very, very good progress. But like I said before, there are countries, there are pockets in countries, especially among ethnic minorities or persons with disabilities and the LGBTQ+ community that needs to continue to we need to continue to focus. We need to make sure that we are not leaving anyone behind, which is also the sentiment of the Sustainable Development Goals.

00:14:09:23

BJORN

Now, what we are facing, if you're looking ahead and, you know, taking stock of where we are. Yes, as a UN organization, we are working with governments across Asia and the Pacific region to have events at the national level to commemorate ICPD and to keep it alive and like I said before, to keep it alive for young people. So I've seen many, many interesting activities across the region and all of this will culminate and come together here in Bangkok at the U.N. in November, at the Asia Pacific Population Conference.

 

00:14:48:24

BJORN

That is an opportunity where we also can, you know, continue and maybe kick start a conversation about future challenges related to population and development and SRHR. And I'm thinking of the climate crisis, for example. How will that impact the discussions around population and development.

 

00:15:11:16

BJORN

Population aging and low fertility is a fairly new phenomenon in many countries, and while they are related, there are two separate aspects - population aging is really to see how can we support the elderly in so that they can continue having an active and healthy life. 

 

00:15:31:07

BJORN

And our approach to that is very much to stress the importance to invest in sexual and reproductive health, in comprehensive sexuality education, in women's empowerment, gender equality throughout the lifecycle.

 

00:15:45:20

BJORN

Also so that you build up that resilience, that skills in people so that they can use it. Also when they grow older. Low fertility is an area where I can see a lot of political challenges, if you like, and many governments. And it's that and it's growing very fast in the Pacific. If you compare to Europe and other parts of the world, it has the low fertility, the transition is taking much longer, but here’s moving very, very fast in this region and governments are desperate to find a solution to that.

00:16:24:21

BJORN

What is clear is that we cannot we cannot come back to a situation where we're talking about targets, but we are talking about more or less forcing women to have more children. What the evidence shows us is that access to sexual and reproductive health and rights, human rights and women's rights in particular, is the solution.

 

00:16:49:20

BJORN

Then governments can stimulate and facilitate for women to combine their family life with their career. Governments can look into I mean, it's expensive to put a child into education these days if you want a good school. So many, many women who have an academic background, they might say, no, I can't afford that.

 

00:17:16:24

BJORN

Or and women, you know, who have also now and that's a very positive sign more women are completing their, you know, university education. And then, you know, of course, you want to have a career and you want to combine that with a family. So there are ways that governments can stimulate it and facilitate it. But that's one thing. And it's very different from going into targets and directives, right, on  childbearing. 

 

00:17:48:17

HOST

I think it's so important Bjorn, you said that if we really have to think about it's about the people, it's about people's lives and it's kind of saddening that we still do have that kind of pressure. Me as a woman, you know, living in this region, I can understand how how, you know, the political side of the situation or the concern of the, you know, the whole country nationwide, whether it's in the Southeast Asia or in other countries nearby in Asia, it's always been about how do we power the next generation, how do we, you know, develop as a country with an aging society. 

 

00:18:31:01

HOST

But taking all of these changes that have taken place, it would be really interesting to get your perspective, your sense of how the changes have been brought about in the region and how women's and girls rights and, you know, lives have improved with the programmemes that you've been involved in.

 

00:18:55:01

BJORN

Let me just start that during the past six years, as I've been regional director and I'm now moving on to a new function, a new role within the organization, I have convinced myself, if you like, that understanding the bigger picture in societies about urbanization, migration, the climate crisis, the economic development, humanitarian situations, that is something that is the overall arching framework in which parliamentarians and policymakers are making decisions.

 

00:19:31:00

BJORN

They're making budget allocations for social services for whether it's the agriculture sector or infrastructure. We have to understand that much better. But, it's not enough. You have to then go to the communities, to individuals in rural areas, in urban areas, to understand how people are thinking - how are women thinking, how are young people thinking about their families, about their careers, and what are the factors that they consider in making their choices in life.

 

00:20:06:23

BJORN

But we need and this is for me a very strategic challenge, we need to understand both sides working in this area. We need to understand how these bigger pictures of climate crises, of economic development, migration patterns [impact] society, how that is impacting on individual behavior, that and the norms and values which often communities are carrying on.

 

00:20:38:10

BJORN

And we need to understand how can we address those norms and values which are harmful to women and which makes it more difficult for women to access university access, sexual practices and services. 

 

00:20:55:00

BJORN

And I'm saying this because it's important for parliamentarians and policy makers to understand what is going on in communities, what's going on in societies, and the minds of their voters.

 

00:21:06:02

BJORN

And vice versa, it's so important for individual men and women to internalize what does it mean, gender equality in my context? What does human rights and reproductive rights – what does it mean to me? And they need in many countries you have very, very good laws around female genital mutilation, gender-biased sex selections, laws promoting gender equality. And communities need to internalize these laws so that they understand this is my right and it is not it is not okay to be beaten by my husband.

 

00:21:44:23

BJORN

Gender based violence - it's a prevalence across the region. But what the progress is, what I can see. We have a progress in the thinking on how to prevent gender based violence, how to provide services and support to survivors of gender based violence. And I can see that conversation being something which is really is a positive development, but is still far from being implemented at the community level.

    

00:22:11:19

BJORN

Again, what I see also in this region with the rapid development of technologies, you have digitalization in countries. That opens up many, many opportunities and more access to information around SRHR, access around the various opportunities for women in particular to, you know, have a career and an education. 

 

00:22:43:22

BJORN

But at the same time, there are also challenges with technologies, with digitalization is the social norms in societies are not changing in such a way that it actually prevent, for example, cyberbullying.

 

00:23:00:16

BJORN

So we need to be very clear what is happening in societies. And at the same time, what is the thinking in urban areas or rural areas. And this region has a challenge here, given its geography, many small islands, more small isolated islands or valleys up in landlocked countries where you need to be able to reach, you know, with information and services.

 

00:23:27:22

BJORN

And I have no doubt that this region will address that, because, you know, the capacity in Asia and the Pacific across in most countries is very high. And the willingness like you are talking about among women in particular and men is to improve their lives. So I think the force to make sure that ICPD and other agreements made by the United Nations, it actually rests with individual men and women.

 

00:23:55:19

BJORN

And we just need to be supporting them and their communities and their groups and civil society organizations to be this torchbearer of making things better for themselves, to understand what human rights means for them, what gender equality means for a community or for it for me as a man or a woman. And the investment in that, I think, is the absolute way forward because the power is coming from individual men and women and young people.

 

00:24:29:19

BJORN

It has always been the case. And if we are not going to have a backlash on ICPD and my message has always been to to whether it's in internally, within UNFPA or externally, is that gender equality, women's rights and human rights in the broadest sense, are absolutely essential for achieving the the goals in the ICPD programmeme of action.

 

00:24:54:18

BJORN

And without a vibrant civil society, without understanding on what has been achieved so far, if that is not strong in societies and we have seen this in countries across the across the world, that laws can change quickly, which makes it much more difficult for people to to have universal access to sexual and reproductive health and rights.

 

00:25:22:22

BJORN

And that's something we all have to be very mindful about moving forward now in the next steps of the ICPD programme of action. And when we are using it to provide that safety and security to individuals and to make sure that it continues to be a very important document for the next generations. 

 

00:25:49:02

HOST

Well said, Bjorn. And Bjorn, it cannot be denied that you have had such an expansive career. And you know, when we take a look at your tenure with UNFPA, Asia Pacific, I'm sure there's a lot of the moments that you know that during your time that have touched you. But if you could just give us a significant, memorable moment that has deeply touched you to share with us, with our listeners, can you tell us a little bit about maybe an incident.

 

00:26:18:21

BJORN

I'm continuing with in UNFPA to work in the area of humanitarian work and I think the strongest moment or the that which has also been very emotional for me is in humanitarian settings when I meet men and women who are glad to fled and had to flee or whether it was a natural disaster, flooding, earthquake or because of armed conflict or conflicts in societies. 

 

00:26:51:20

BJORN

And I had a very strong moment six years ago when I came to visit Cox’s Bazar in Bangladesh and I met women who had fled from their home country and they had been there were survivors of gender based violence that had been raped and there had been sexual assault.

 

00:27:14:24

BJORN

And I was invited to meet with them, which was at the time, you know, which was unusual because, as a man, they wanted to protect the space for these women, which I fully understand. But they wanted to see me and they were open to that. And I asked the question, so how can I or how can our organization, how can we support you in any way?

 

00:27:39:14

BJORN

And, you know, realizing the enormous amount of challenges and suffering and what they had survived is quite daunting. But they gave me a very clear message. We want justice. We want justice. And it was really like words that came out. And then that triggered a lot of emotion and feelings among this group of women of different ages that made such an impression on me.

 

00:28:10:16

BJORN

And it has been with me here all the time when I've been here in Asia-Pacific. And it also gave me, you know, kind of reflecting on that incident or that experience, which was, of course, very emotional and difficult at the time. But it has also strengthened me in my own thinking around how important the ICPD programme of action actually was to assemble and I was very fortunate and privileged to have attend it and with my different roles in UNFPA and in my own country.

 

00:28:49:00

BJORN

And now when I'm finishing my tenure here in Bangkok as regional director, it gives me closure, if you like, and to be able to see how the, you know, the how that one community can come together to attract such a strong document. 

 

00:29:12:21

BJORN

And then it gives us working in this area that gives governments and gives civil society organizations the mandate also in humanitarian situations to really address very personal issues that we are all facing as individuals around sexuality and reproduction. So I'm very thankful for having now finished my six years as a regional director in Asia and the Pacific. 

 

00:29:42:24

HOST

Bjorn, thank you so much for sharing your perspective of your tenure and also the work that has been done with your time here at UNFPA, Asia Pacific, and also what has been progressing so far. But looking ahead, I know you will be, you are in a new position as the senior adviser of resource mobilization and advocacy for humanitarian initiatives for UNFPA based in Geneva.

 

00:30:14:05

HOST

There's still a lot more to be done. And after talking to you, I hear that it's very much, you know, a passion of yours to do work in humanitarian initiatives. Can you tell us to wrap things up, you know, what are your hopes for the future in your work? 

 

00:30:31:17

BJORN

We need to make sure that everyone and I mean, everyone understands that whenever there is a humanitarian situation, women will continue to be pregnant and to give birth. Women and men, young people, they will continue to request or want to have access to family planning services or contraceptives. 

 

00:30:59:07

BJORN

And we also know that in humanitarian situations, the prevalence of gender based violence is going up. These are areas that perhaps many, many colleagues working in the humanitarian area, they are focused on very quick life-saving interventions, which is absolutely necessary. But that needs to be combined with also life saving activities around sexual and reproductive health and rights and gender based violence.

 

00:31:33:13

BJORN

And if we can achieve that understanding and I see and I've seen it in Asia and the Pacific, how that is now more and more becoming a natural part of addressing humanitarian situations. I think that is something which is so important to continue working and placing on the map for donors and governments in general. 

 

00:31:57:22

HOST

Bjorn, thank you so much again, we are touched by what you've spoken about and we are aware of the challenges that we still face ahead. But at the same time, we have hope from your words, as to the progress that can be made. Thank you so much for being with us here on our podcast. 

 

Host Conclusion

00:32:17:10

HOST

This has been the latest episode of “Hold on a Minute!” by UNFPA Asia-Pacific.  It is clear that the ICPD has played a crucial role in uplifting women’s reproductive health and rights around the world.  We thank Björn once again for reflecting on his career in this region, and for sharing his insights on how things have and are still progressing.

 

00:32:39:21

HOST

For more insightful episodes of “Hold on a Minute!” by UNFPA Asia-Pacific, follow our podcast pages on Spotify, Facebook, YouTube, and Apple Podcast.  Just search for  UNFPA “Hold on a minute”.  

 

See you in our next episode!